Welcome to Marketer vs. Machine, the showdown series where human creativity takes on artificial intelligence in the fight for marketing supremacy.
In this explosive first round, Dealfront’s VP of Marketing, Sam O’Brien, squares up against the AI ‘CEO’ in a no-holds-barred debate over one of the most controversial questions in modern marketing: Do leads still matter?
As the AI demands volume and questions performance, Sam defends the marketer’s case for quality, pipeline coverage, and revenue impact.
Are we chasing vanity metrics or building real momentum? Is fewer, better the way forward — or just a convenient excuse?
Tune in as we break down outdated KPIs, challenge assumptions, and see who lands the knockout punch in this data vs. intuition battle.
Let the fight begin.
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![Sam O'Brien]()
Sam O'Brien
VP of Marketing at Dealfront
00:05 Let's dive in. Sam, enlighten me. Why are our leads down? I thought marketing was supposed to, to generate pipeline. We've spent more money than ever and I'm seeing fewer leads. How exactly is that a win? You said it right yourself there in the beginning. So you said marketing, I'm going to generate pipeline. That's what we're focused on. We're not focused on leads. Leads are actually a very hard metric to determine if it's good.
00:33 the quality is good or bad. So we're focused on pipeline. And that's what we're going to worry about generating, not necessarily leads. Generating not necessarily leads. Right, right. Quality over quantity. I've heard the spiel, but here's the thing. Sam, if leads are down, isn't that a signal? Something's broken. I mean, how can you say marketing is working if there's literally less coming through the door?
01:02 Sounds like you're just moving the goal posts.
01:08 I understand why it would sound like that. It's definitely not moving the goalposts. So we could bring leads in if we wanted to. We could generate loads and loads of leads for you, but the quality isn't going to be there. So, you know, we can put up a lead gen content, some gated content. can use lead gen forms on LinkedIn and we'll get loads and loads of leads, but the quality won't be there. So the amount of deals we'll get off the back of it actually will be lower.
01:37 we'll spend more of the sales team's time following up on these leads. And ultimately, we'll end up with a lower amount of revenue that we generate. The better strategy is to focus on quality. Let's make sure what we give to sales is meaningful, it's qualified, it matches our ICP, and we believe it's gonna convert into revenue. And if we can focus on less, not focus on less leads,
02:07 but focus less on the volume of leads and more on the quality, i.e. the amount of pipeline we bring in, we will be a much more successful marketing team. Sure, but I still don't buy that. Less is more if we're doing marketing, right? We should be able to have both volume and quality. You're basically telling me we can't walk and chew gum. And if that's true, why are our competitors bragging about thousands of leads per month?
02:33 seems like either they're smarter than us or we're over complicating everything. They could be smarter than us or they could just be convincing you that they're generating these leads. I'm not sure where that comes from. Look, at the end of the day, as long as we keep hitting our pipeline target, it doesn't matter if the leads number is dropping. Right? I want to spend our money wisely. I want to spend it on the right things.
03:01 So as I said, we could easily generate more leads, but let's make sure we're generating quality. Let's not just go and chase this vanity metric, which is leads. Let's make sure what we're bringing in is converting. It's part of our ICP and it results in revenue because ultimately if it takes, you know, if I can get a hundred leads to and only end up with one customer, it's not worth the effort. Whereas if I bring in 10 quality leads, which end up in two customers,
03:30 It's worth the effort, right? So let's not measure it like that. Let's look at pipeline, make sure we've got enough coverage for the sales team, make sure that the reps are able to work the opportunities, the qualities there. And then ultimately, as I said, we'll be a much better, more efficient marketing team. All right. But humor me, if you're right, then why is our close rate up this quarter, even though leads are down? Because I looked at the numbers this morning and actually wait,
04:00 That's because we've been filtering more aggressively, isn't it? Damn it, Sam, you're right. You cut the noise, kept the good stuff, and the pipeline's moving smoother. I hate saying this, but I might owe you a thank you. Don't let it go to your head. I never would. know, once every now and then we, in marketing, know what we're doing and we pick the right things. So I'm glad this one's worked out. All right. I'll give you this round. Just don't expect me to admit it in front of the board.