From Marketing Intern to Agency Co-Founder with Delia Pitu

00:03 Hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Career Ladder, where we dive deep into the career journeys of revenue focused professionals to give you real insights, actionable tips, and maybe even a little reassurance of the journey is yours to divine. In this episode, I am joined by Delia Pitu and we're going to be chatting about her journey from marketing intern to agency co-founder. Now, I think I'm interested in this one because we haven't had, I don't want to say traditional agency founder, because all agencies are different, but.

00:33 agency and probably the more familiar sense. We've had a guy called Tom on who set up a podcast agency, but this is more of a traditional sort of marketing agency. And we haven't had that many conversations about a marketing career journey as of yet. So it'd good to deep dive into more of a marketing focused career rather than sales. Obviously I'm slightly biased because I'm a marketer, but I do chat to a lot of people in sales. So it's nice to

01:02 switch from time to time. without further ado, how are you Delia? I'm very good. Thank you. How are you? I am good. I am good. We were just discussing that I will be getting a puppy very, very soon. So I had the first photos of the puppy born on Friday morning, which is exciting slash daunting because my nice white, clean, flat minimalist is gonna be chewed, ruined.

01:31 dirty, but that is part of the part of the fun, I guess. But anyway, enough about my enough about puppies and dogs. We start these conversations by looking all the way back to your first ever job. And by first ever job, I do literally mean your first ever job, whatever that may be. So do want to tell us about your first ever job? Yeah, it was it was quite a funny one. My dad put me through to this.

01:59 agricultural company, were selling like trucks and agricultural device. I want to say devices, like all things agriculture. My dad works in agriculture. So he was just like, you should give it a go. And, you know, just to have something to do this summer, I had just started uni. So I went and did like a two week apprenticeship. And I mean, I called it like a marketing apprenticeship. It was pretty much like an

02:26 everything apprenticeship. was just sitting next to people and just helping them out with translations. I was the only one in the office that spoke German, so they would just give me loads of documents to translate from German to English to Romanian. It was a very strange two weeks. And let's just say it just helped me realize that that was not an industry I wanted to work in. Was it a case of your dad

02:55 wanting you to give it a go just in case you wanted to follow in his footsteps or was it just that there happened to be an internship and he was like that it's an easy just go and do it. I don't think he ever expected me to go into agriculture. I never expressed any sort of interest in that area. I was always more of a creative person. You know, I was good in school, like good with math and stuff like that. So I don't think he ever expected me to go into that industry. I think it was just, you know, him knowing that there was an opening for

03:25 They needed a bit of help and it was just my first year in uni and it was like, it'll be just good experience for you to just be in an office and like have someone to respond to and, you know, get a bit of responsibility. No, I do. I remember my, I think we only did a week in the UK, but it was in some sort of, think it was magazine office or something. And I genuinely cannot remember what I did, which clearly means it was just making cups of tea or

03:55 doing the mail or whatever. You touched on English, German and Romanian there. Now, we were connected by one of the one of the I always want to say girls, women. Why girls seems to be a word that always I don't know why but one of the women one of the women I am an adult now that this is the thing like I always say boys and girls even though I am now definitely an adult and it's men and women.

04:24 But one of the women in my team connected us. And she did mention that she was like, little challenge for you. Try and place Delia's accent. And it sounds English. And then there's the odd sort of Americanism in there. But tell us about, tell us about your, your background. Cause you spoke of German, Romanian and English there. Yeah, I do get that a lot because my husband's English and

04:54 Obviously living with him and being in the UK for the past seven years. I don't know. I think it's just because I've always had like an actual foreign languages that I picked it up quite easily. I was born in Romania, so I'm born and raised in Romania, but my mom kind of like wanted me to learn German ever since I was a kid for some reason. So I went to German kindergarten and then I studied it in school and I was just picking up English from the television at the same time. And then I studied it in school as well.

05:24 So my I went on and did my bachelor's degree in Vienna in Austria. So that was half German and half English. It's very difficult. And then I studied a little bit of Italian in uni, picked up Spanish as a kid. So it was just like, you know, kind of a lot of languages to juggle. But in the end, I don't actually use any of them, which is a bit of a shame. So you're one of those really, really

05:54 in polite, I mean this politely, really, really annoying people who can just speak like five different languages for like pretty well. Well, I definitely I wouldn't say I don't really speak Italian. I do understand it. It's very similar to Romanian. I do speak Spanish and understand more than I can speak. But yeah, German was pretty much fluent because I had to try and trying to study law in economics in Germany.

06:22 is a challenge. So I had to be fluent. then obviously English is now pretty much just like a mother language to me as well. So yeah, it's well fair play hats off to your mum for wanting you to speak a second language so early on. Well, I do. I did French and German, but I didn't really enjoy it. I definitely don't have the aptitude for languages, but I kind of wish my mum had forced me into it from like

06:51 two or three because my mom speaks French, right? This is the mad thing. My mom speaks French, but she never sort of pushed us into learning French, which is absolutely mad. Seems like a waste. Okay, so very good languages, two week apprenticeship in an agricultural firm, tools and trucks and things like that. what was your first, you touched on like university there in Austria, but what was your first proper job?

07:20 We call it, we invert it and we call it the proper job on this series. So what was your first career move? So after I graduated, I tried actually, I tried to stay in Austria, but I couldn't find a role. And it was, mean, I think it would have been really difficult to work in German, even though I was fluent. But so I ended up, I was, I was basically trying to move to London at that point. So I was applying for a role. It was a

07:48 an advertising agency in London, um, that were one of my cousins had worked at. he was like, Oh, you should try it because it's really good experience. And then I had also applied for a summer internship at Procter and Gamble in Bucharest. And obviously like, you know, went to a ton of interviews, traveled to London for interviews. Um, in the end, I ended up going to Procter and Gamble. Um, so I did.

08:14 It was supposed to be like a six month internship. ended up doing six, nine months. Um, so I did brand management for Pampers. Uh, and then I moved into trade marketing, um, for Oral-B and Gillette. So that was like my whole nine months there and it was the first proper job I had. Yeah.

08:38 Talk to me about the decision to go into a marketing sort of internship versus law, economics and laws. yeah. Economics, how come you just, other than the fact that there's, know, numbers and creativity, very, very different, what was your, what was the rationale? I think a lot of people from my university who did the same degree, they were going into consulting.

09:07 It was just something that never spoke to me. I don't know. I don't know if it was, it was the field in itself or the work in itself or just, it just seemed very, I might upset some people, but it seemed very boring to me. And it just seemed very like formal and you know, I, I'm a singer as well. So I am a very creative person. I wanted something to like combine the two, like my love for math.

09:37 And also like my creative side. And it seemed like marketing was the only way to go. Basically. It's very, very interesting. Um, because I've, you're probably the first person that I've met that made the exact same decision I did. So I did a degree. Um, I did it kind of like the other way around though. So I did a degree in design and then decided I don't like being told what to design, which is in reality, if you're a designer, you get told what.

10:06 someone wants, then you design something and then they tell you, that's not what I wanted. Can you just do it in the way I wanted, even though you're the expert designer? So I was like, right, I don't want to do design, but I love the creativity. What did I love at school? And what was I good at school? Maths, advanced math stats. were three things that I did at school and I was like, right, creativity, maths, stats, put it in the middle. What'd you get marketing? Um, so that, yeah, I can, I can relate to that heavily. Um, so you,

10:35 nine months internship, Procter & Gamble. You talked about trademarking, which piqued my interest because that's where I started as well. So talk, what was trademarking for you, like offer that particular internship? It was really cool. I think I almost liked trademarking a bit more than what I was doing in brand management, purely because I think it was the first time for me where

11:03 You know, I got to collaborate with so many like external partners and they were giving me more authority and I had, and that was because I, when I went into that, I switched departments and I went into trade marketing. There were some budget issues. So me using my math brain, I started going through like all of their budget sheets and everything. I was identifying some like errors and like, I managed to sort them out and that made it.

11:32 so much more exciting because I felt like I was actually doing something and contributing to the department and to their work. And then they trusted me more. I was liaising with external partners. I was going into the shops to see the POSMs that we were doing. Yeah, it was really cool. And I was working with sales, which I think also helped quite a lot seeing how they manage their clients and seeing them in action, basically.

12:02 just taught me a little bit about sales as well. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Trade marketing is a is that kind of like middle ground between like full on marketing and sales distribution or whatever. You're creating marketing materials to be used in a often by distributors who are selling your product or something like that. it's yeah, it's very, very you've got like

12:32 minimum order, quantities, details, pricing sheets, all that sort of stuff. And then you've got the little things, uh, a fours that you might put on stands and stuff. So it's a good mix. It's a really, really good way of really, really good starting point for understanding how marketing materials are used in the real world. Um, so, yeah. So you did that for nine months. What were the key? Cause nine months, nine months is a,

12:58 good while for an internship. what did you, what were the key takeaways from, from that period for you? I mean, seeing that it was my first job and my first, my first real job in marketing. I, I loved it. I loved my time there and you know, I made a lot of friends. Um, there, we were a huge group of interns that summer. Um, so it really did help me understand what it's like to work as part of a team.

13:28 you know, to work with different departments, um, because, Procter & Gamble is a huge company. They have like tons of departments. We were in a huge building with like multiple floors. I had to like go to sales and then there were different areas for the different brands. And it really teaches you how to work within different levels of, the same company, how to work with different departments of the same company, but also how to work with external partners.

13:57 And I think that was actually my biggest lesson there. And it's something that really helped a lot later on when we launched our agency, because I'm having to work with a lot of suppliers, for example. And that was something that I first learned at Procter & Gamble. And it was something that it was a very valuable skill that helped me a lot later when we launched our agency. Yeah, I think we've had a couple of others who have said the same thing about working in a big business in the like.

14:26 Startups are amazing doing your own things amazing having like rolling your sleeves up and getting dirty is amazing, but There is something to be said about being in a huge company that has defined processes career pathways and all that sort of stuff and things basically It's very much a box ticking career path when you're in a company that size, but you can learn a lot about effective management and structure and SOPs and processes and things that you can carry forward into your own company or into

14:54 any startup, smaller company. definitely that's a good takeaway is that as much as it's probably more fashionable to work in startups and smaller companies and found your own thing nowadays, definitely do a stint like a year or two in those bigger companies so you can learn the sort of like foundations, the bit the bit that no one really wants to do because it on the outside, it looks a little bit more boring working in all that structure, but it is very, very good for building the foundations.

15:23 I think foundations is the perfect word for it. You're right. Yeah, like I definitely wouldn't suggest staying there for your entire career because then you'll just be in a box. Basically, you'll be in a cage in a box. in terms of like just setting those foundations, it's very, very good. Even things like how to set up a meeting and do a meeting agenda and take notes and how you communicate the notes and all that sort of stuff. That's one of the best ways to learn it.

15:52 Um, so was that, uh, you said it was nine months. You thought it was going to be six months initially ended up being nine months of what, what brought it to an end or why would, why was it extended and then what brought it to an end? Um, I think they were, they were offering, uh, permanent roles at the end of the internship program. I think there was a limited number of roles and then I kind of wasn't picked for the permanent role, which is, I think at the time I was really upset.

16:22 because I really enjoyed working in the team and I felt like I had gotten into a really good flow. But looking back, I think it was the best thing that could have happened. So I don't regret not staying there. And also given my experiences after, I don't think I would have liked working in a corporation long-term.

16:46 No, it's um, I have this thing of like, if you ever don't get a job that you thought you wanted, or a job comes to an end sooner than you hoped, all that happens is you end up finding a better job or something that's a better fit. Like in the immediate, like, your immediate reaction is like, my life is over, what am going to do next? And then six months to a year down the line, you're like, wow, that was the best, that was the best decision I ever made.

17:15 And yeah, I can completely understand why you didn't want to stay in that structure and like tens of thousands of people, because it's not it's not the best for creatives. Let's say that's why big companies like that often use agencies for their creatives, because it's not the best set up for creatives to work, to be honest. right. Talk to me about your next highlight role, because you

17:43 You went from marketing and you went, it looks like across to sales. So tell me about your next highlight role. So it was funny though, because at the time when I was working at Procter and Gamble, most people and we were working with an external agency. I think they were working with, um, what was the name? It's a very big agency. can't remember now. Um, and, everyone was saying that, you know, the, the path that everyone takes is that they go into agencies and then they move on the client side.

18:13 And then I went the opposite way. You know, I went from, from the client side, I went into an agency. So I got a permanent role after it was a Saatchi and Saatchi's office in Bucharest. So I had, I took on a, a account, not account management, like account executive role at Saatchi and Saatchi, but that was only like three months. So I left it quite early, but it was.

18:40 a really good three months. It was my first experience in an agency and I loved it. loved it. So working with, I had like one of my good friends in the agency was she was the social media girl. And then, you we were going out with like the design people and the copywriter and they'd have like strategy meetings and I loved it. don't, looking back now, I'm just like realizing what a good time I had in the agency. And it makes sense why we went down that road, you know.

19:09 few years later. Yeah. So, yeah. So I saw account executive. read account executive when I looked through the, look through the notes and I thought that you were like, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to try sales. I'm going to go and be in an, uh, an AE and I'm going to deliver pipeline. Okay. So, right. So it's an agency account management. Now the thing you said about agency is, um, is interesting. So we, I've worked with a lot of agencies, um, over the years and you're right. I think people tend to do.

19:37 couple years in the in agency, then they get burnt out. And then they're like, right, I want I want an easy life. I'm to go client side and work with the agency that I'm leaving, or work with agencies like this. I'm leaving because it is very, very high pressure. But in the high pressure, you can learn an immense amount. So you were you're only there three months. Now, why? Why only three months? What was the it sounds like something?

20:07 Something really good or really bad happened? My dream since I was in high school was to work in fashion. So that was always my dream, but it never kind of seemed feasible. Romania didn't have like a big fashion scene for me to go into. So, you know, I had this experience with Procter & Gamble. I had this experience with the agency and I was like, OK, this is not good enough for me. I want more. I want more.

20:35 So let me just go and try to follow my dream. So I signed up for a masters in London for fashion management at Westminster uni. And so I, that's why I left the agency basically. Also, it wasn't like really high pay and it wasn't just good enough at the time. I knew I could do a lot more. You know, I trusted my skills, you know, my expertise and

21:05 everything I had, you I was going into these roles with like speaking like four or five foreign languages. I had like a huge degree behind me. So I was like, I can do more. So then I moved to London after that. That's why I left the agency. I moved to London to study, worked in retail throughout my masters and then got the first actual job in fashion. So what was the you said like you something that you always wanted to do, but what was the draw?

21:35 in fashion? I don't know. When I was in high school, I kind of rode that first wave of bloggers. When influencers were kind of like starting to be a thing, like people were starting to blog. And that was when I had my first fashion bloggers, like personal style. No one was doing it in Romania at the time. It was me and a couple of other girls that are actually now their big influences here.

22:05 So I think that's when it kind of all started. My mom really likes fashion as well. So it was a huge influence from her side. It was just something I was always interested in. you did you say you did was it a master's? So it was alongside this role. So I did a master's and I worked in retail while I studied just to kind of have like a part time job to help me support.

22:35 myself in London. So you moved to London. You did the masters, which I'm assuming was a year. Yeah, it was a year. Yeah. Fashion management. What was the role that you had alongside that? I was literally in install sales assistant. I was working in the shop on the shop floor. Okay. And then we're fast forwarding to you've done your masters and then the role after that. So what was the first role after you had got your masters?

23:05 I got an internship at Kurt Geiger. I don't know if you're familiar with the brand. Yes. Yeah. So I got an internship in wholesale and merchandise, pretty much working on the partnerships with TK Maxx and ASOS. And I got it. was very easy to get it because they did tests.

23:32 for the as part of the interview and the test would basically Excel spreadsheets. So I was like, yes, I'm going to ace this, which I did. I loved Excel. It sounds super geeky, but it was just like, oh, no, I'm I'm you're talking to a fellow spreadsheet. I will happily spend four hours and get lost inside a spreadsheet. Yeah, same. So the spreadsheets were so easy as well in the interview. I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be my role. Like, that's going to be so easy.

23:59 And it was fun at the start, you know, because it was kind of like my first interaction with the fashion world. And you'd walk into the office and there'd be like shoes and bags everywhere. And it was all girls where I was working in the office. Every single day seemed like a fashion parade. You everyone would be super stylish in the office. But yeah, was, I felt overqualified for the job.

24:29 I mean, it sounds like you are portraying a nineties or early 2000s TV series there. So it was it was it actually like that in the office. It was it was it was super cool because they'd have these like internal sample sale days and you'd go and buy loads of like, like basically designer bags and shoes for the fiber. So there were perks to the job, you know, but it was just

24:56 It felt very difficult to advance in the company. It was supposed to be a three month internship and then it turned into a six month internship and then they wanted to extend it again and that for me was just, I can't because I just will literally have to starve myself to be able to live in London. Yeah, I was going to say, you moved to London. And I mean, what sort of year was this roughly?

25:24 That was 2017. 2017, okay. Pre-COVID. Still one of the most expensive cities to live in the world. It's famous for that. So I'm assuming the internship was not the best pay. What sort of... Go on, break my heart. What was the annual salary for... proposed annual salary for that sort of internship? I don't even think I had it as an annual salary. It was like an hourly...

25:53 wage type of thing, but I don't remember. It was under a thousand pounds a month that I was making, but either way, I remember being shocked because I was making more as a sales assistant in the shop.

26:07 than working in an actual office. So that for me was just, know, the math wasn't adding up. Like how could I be making more working part-time in a shop? Yeah, Jadon, it doesn't surprise me, but the only reason it doesn't surprise me is because I've read stories and I've watched videos about the, what's the word I'm looking for? It's like the misrepresentation or the misconception about the fashion industry that

26:36 a lot of men and women will go into the fashion industry expecting it to be one thing and then they realize it's terrible pay in insane hours and because the brand has a certain allure to it, the brand has a certain like value in terms of its like brand people like I want to work at that company and then in reality it's not quite what they expected it to be. Yeah I think don't get me wrong I mean everyone I've met there

27:04 people loved working there. So I think it's also a matter of passion versus a matter of priorities as well, you know? And I think that was the moment where I realized that it wasn't a priority for me to work in fashion. Because literally every single person that I met there, absolutely, they were obsessed with fashion, you know, they lived for it.

27:30 For them, it didn't matter. They wanted to advance in the company. They stayed there. They were dedicated. And I'm convinced that, you know, the more you grow in the company, the pay gets better. I think it's something that happens maybe at like internship level. But for me, that was just, you know, a wake up call. And I was like, okay, you know, I can love fashion as a hobby, but I need something that supports that hobby.

27:58 Now you were there, you said around six months. What did you actually do in those six months? It was actually pretty cool. was doing a lot of the supplier. was managing the suppliers that we had in China. So it was a lot of like spreadsheets involved. I was actually offering myself to support with like other stuff. I could go and take pictures of some of the products so that we have like a

28:27 we needed to have like pictures of everything in our system. I don't know. It was a lot of things like this. It wasn't much to do with marketing, which I think I kind of missed at that point. I was starting to realize that I missed that kind of like creative side to it. So I wanted my idea was that if I was to stay in the company, I would have tried to move into buying, but you know, in the end, it didn't happen.

28:57 So yeah, it definitely sounds more weighted towards the wholesale side of things. you said, spreadsheets, minimal, more the quantities, you know, price per unit, stuff like that. So that was that was six months and you said you you felt like you needed or you wanted to get back into marketing. So I'm assuming the next move was a conscious decision to move back into a dedicated marketing role. Yeah.

29:24 Yeah. And I think, you know, I really loved London at this point and I didn't want to leave. So I was like, if I'm going to stay here, I need a higher salary. And that's when I kind of made the decision to go back into marketing. And that whole time, that whole year is a bit of a blur to be honest. I don't remember much, but I started looking for jobs and I actually found another internship at this point.

29:52 I was already so sick of internships at this. I was like, you know, it's been two, three years since I graduated. I'm just jumping from one internship to another. So I just wanted to land a role that would guarantee like a permanent role after. And I found this, my next role after this was, it started as a marketing internship, but I very quickly got them to give me a permanent role.

30:20 like three months in. I went into a travel company, a luxury travel company and that role changed everything.

30:35 What was the title you managed to or role you managed to get after the three month internship? Digital Marketing Associate. So I guess like equivalent would be Marketing Exec. Yeah, same sort of thing. Right, you said it changed everything. what? let's spend some time there. How did it change everything?

31:05 It was very funny actually how I got this role because I applied and the guy who hired me, he did a bit of digging before asking me to come to the interview. And that was also when I realized that employers do actually go through your social media when they hire you. I had a bit of a following on Instagram because I'd gained some popularity in Romania. I went on TV.

31:35 A year before that, a few years before that, I was on the Voice of Romania. So I had like a bit of a following on Instagram and that's what my employer loved. He was like, you know, if she's got this following on Instagram, she can help us with our Instagram. that's basically why he asked me to interview. And then he met me and, you know, we had a really good interview. He liked my experience and my background and I had a good degree.

32:03 a lot of experience in what they needed. And that's how he basically gave me a chance, even though I didn't have specifically social media experience on my resume. had marketing experience, but not social media. So he took a chance on me and it was the best role I had. My team was amazing. To this day, I still speak to the girls that I used to work with and they're amazing girls. I honestly loved my team.

32:31 My boss was incredible. We still keep in touch. And he's, he was kind of the one that because it was a small company, you know, we were a small team, five people in, in the marketing department. And he pushed me to learn so many things. It was the first person that I had worked with that actually took an interest in my development. And that was the role where I learned how to use Premiere Pro. The designer, Mackenzie, I still speak to her with friends.

33:01 She taught me how to use InDesign for presentations. I was teaching myself how to build in the backend of WordPress. was saving basically the company money by doing stuff myself instead of going to developers. So that was where I kind of gained this like all rounded experience, marketing experience. And I learned how to do pretty much everything.

33:30 Now, before we, uh, before I ask you some questions about, um, the stuff that you learned, how many followers did you have on Instagram at the time? I've got, I've got to ask. Not even that many. think I had like, it was under 10 K. It's like 7,000 or something, but I think maybe at that time in 2018, I think it was, it seemed like a lot more. mean, today, obviously that wouldn't matter. Seven K. Yeah. I only, cause I did,

34:00 I did a few things. God must be over five years ago now. And one of the interviews that I did was went on to BBC in the UK and then I got sort of followers off the back of that. And I've had exactly the same thing of like people, people look at it and look at your follower thing and they're like, oh, they must know how to do social media or, whatever, but it definitely helps. Okay, right. So the stuff that you, you learn and you listed a few tools.

34:30 You listed a few sort of things that you were doing, especially like the pitching in on the web development thing, but it'd be good to understand like how long were you were you in that role? I think it was well over a year, I think. Well, maybe closer to two years, something like that. One to two years. So let's try and piece together that two years then. you started and I'm assuming it was like...

34:58 more focus on maybe social media to begin with. then over time, they was it just the case of, right, we've got you in. Do you want to give this a go? Because, you know, you've shown that you can do that. Or was it that you asked and you sort of fought for more responsibility? I fought for more responsibility. So I started off just doing social media stuff. So, you know, it was like sourcing content. was scheduling, writing the captions, doing the posts, et cetera.

35:28 Um, but that wasn't, I just wanted to do more. want, was super eager to learn more. Um, and I just started to look into things that I could do for the business. Um, so that's when I started, I was like, I started managing the website. Um, and I was, I took over like the relationship with the developers. I was just asking my boss, can I do this? Can I do that? Um, and he was just always super open like, yeah, give it a go. know, if you have time, do it. Yeah.

35:58 And it was really helpful.

36:02 What sort of, you said it was a luxury travel agency. was just having a look at the website in the background there. What sort of things, like deliverables, as in what were the actual outputs that you were working on? I don't even remember now. I think it started off purely with social media. So they just wanted me to handle their socials and like help them grow.

36:30 We tested some ads to see if we can get some more awareness and like some traction with some leads. And then it kind of evolved into a bit more where I was my, my proudest achievement from, from that was that I basically created this concept for, for videos because they, they were going on trips nonstop and their trips were incredible. Um, and that was

36:54 What you'd see today as basically like UGC style videos. That was like the concept that I tried to implement in, I think it was like 2019. And I did it first with my boss when he went on a PR trip. And I said, look, if you're going, just try to take out your phone and like film yourself talking. And then I edited the video in house and I show them the video and everyone's like, oh, super cool.

37:23 everyone liked it and it was so exciting that work that I was just like, this is what I want to do forever. Now you said roughly two years, you built up loads of confidence, you added, I always like adding strings to your posts and new skills, new sort of tools that you knew how to use. Now you mentioned, well, it's travel and then you mentioned it was

37:53 just roughly a piece together the rough timeline around covid. So talk to us about what happens during covid. That's story. I was I was on a ski trip in February. Everything kicked off in March, right with covid. So I was on a ski trip in February and I remember my boss ringing me and we were close. He was a super cool guy. Like we were close and

38:23 I felt like I could tell him anything and like anything I had on my mind. And he rung me and he was like, okay, when you're back, we need to talk. Cause there's been some changes in the company. And that was before any pandemic and any lockdown was even announced. So I get back and I find out that I'm actually being made redundant, which was also kind of funny because

38:49 Jordan and I had already started to plan for our agency. So our plan was to quit our jobs by May. I had a two month notice at that company. So I would quit my job in the March so we could finish in May. And then in June, we'd go to Bali and try to work on the business. We had prepared, we had savings, you know, we were like, we'll give this a go for six months, whatever happens happens. I come back from my ski trip. being made redundant with a two month notice, which

39:19 would have kind of like moved up the date by a month. So it meant I'd have to leave at the end of April. So was like, oh, okay, no biggie. I said to my boss, said, oh, you know, I was actually going to quit next month. So, you know, it was all good. And then COVID happened. So I was put on furlough, which was good for the company as well. I was put on furlough for a couple of months, which kind of gave me the time I needed to prepare the launch of our agency.

39:49 So then after that finished, as I said, we were supposed to leave in June. That never happened. All flights got canceled. So yeah, our plans changed a little bit and we launched a bit earlier than we were supposed to, or like around the same time. But then obviously we weren't in Bali as we had planned. We were in Europe. So we had to accelerate, you know, growing the agency because you have very different costs in Europe.

40:18 and your savings will last not as long as they would in Bali. Let's just put it like that. where did you you mentioned Jordan, where did you meet your co-founder? Like, how did that come about? In London. Yeah. My co-founder is actually my husband. Yeah, yeah. Because I was I knew that bit, but I was like, it was in. where did you originally did you meet through some sort of work or was it purely you met?

40:47 dating wise and then it kind of, yeah, you realize you were in the same field after that. Yeah, we met through a friend. We didn't meet through work. We met through a friend and Jordan was actually working in a huge events company. He'd been there like quite a long time. Super skilled, super skilled. I was really impressed with his like marketing work. And it was only like a year after we were dating that we were kind of like

41:15 you know, talking about our work and he was in marketing and I was in marketing. I was like, you know, we should, we were both like, we should do this. We should just start an agency because it was, I don't want to say it wasn't a gap in the market. It was just us wanting to do something that we loved, but independent of anyone else. Um, and we also had complimentary skills, which helped a lot. Well, it's interesting because I think a lot of, um,

41:44 A lot of people in marketing, mean, myself included, have always thought about the agency route of you find a part of marketing that you love, you find something that you're good at, and then you double down on that and offer it as a service to different companies you get, so you get to work on those different things. The money typically could be a lot better than working in-house. So let's talk about...

42:08 founding the company then. you mentioned that the timeline had to speed up. It has to do it in Europe instead of Bali. So talk us through that period of how'd you go about setting up an agency? I don't even remember. I think we did a trip to Bali in 2019 and that was the first time when we saw people working in cafes.

42:38 And, you know, we, we met, we spoke to some people there and they were staying there and working online. And I think that kind of blew my mind because, okay, maybe Jordan, Jordan's English, he's born and raised in London. So maybe he, he might've come across such things before, you know, people in, in, from the UK, they're more used to like the idea of a gap year, you go travel, et cetera. That wasn't a thing in Romania. So for me, it was just a completely new thing. was like, Whoa, you can do that. Um, so that.

43:08 That kind of was the inspiration for us. And the cafe where we first came across that was actually called Nude. So that was the inspiration for our name, for our agency name. So yeah, we saw that 2019 for a whole year, we kind of like spoke about it, planned it, tried to kind of understand what we'd be doing, tried to understand each other's skill sets.

43:36 That was very important for us if we were going to work together so we don't clash. And he's a lot more creative than me. So he handles a lot more of the creative side and the strategy side. And I'm a lot more in charge of, know, management, client management, client relationships, also sales we do together. you know, because of our complimentary skill sets is great because we both do different things.

44:06 So yeah, fast forward to June or like May, he was still at his job, I think until September. So I kind of had the summer to figure out what we want to do with the agency. And we had already incorporated it, but we weren't doing anything. Yesterday actually marked five years since we incorporated it. So I just started off looking on Upwork for just opportunities.

44:36 And that's how I found my first client, or our first client, who we still work with today. So, from since 2020, it's been five years, that's crazy. And from that, we basically packed our bags and we tried to go wherever COVID allowed us to. So think we spent like a month in Turkey in September, October.

45:03 You know, Istanbul was a lot cheaper than London, so it was a good place for us to go. And then we spent a month in France in like a little village. And that's where we signed our first proper client. And then eventually we made it to Bali in January 2021. Yeah, because I was quite interested about the way, because having an idea of an agency is one thing and then actually finding clients and.

45:32 I mean, having like a repeatable pipeline or having monthly ARR, that's a whole other thing. So you spoke about Upwork. Was it just a case of, cause I know you're a B2B focused agency now, but was it a case of that early founding where it's like, right, we'll do anything we can to pay the bills. what was the first, like give me the first six months or a year of actually like what you were doing for people.

46:02 Anything we would just with disposing of bodies like come on what we're talking about Literally anything we we had no idea what we were doing right even with all the planning and you could be planning for years But like once you're actually in it and you start You officially launch it and you don't have your job anymore to to back you up financially at some point We find ourselves sitting down. We're like, okay. So what do we do today? We don't have any clients

46:30 So that's, we, we first started looking on Upwork just purely because they were people in the market, right? There were people that were looking for, for not necessarily agencies, there were people looking for freelancers because we were just starting out, we were happy to keep our prices low, just to get some experience in, in case studies. So that's how we started. And then the first client, to be honest, came out of nowhere to this day. We do not know how they found us because we had

46:59 just launched, this guy just messaged me with Jordan. I don't remember. They messaged on LinkedIn and they're like, Hey, we're looking for someone to do some Legion ads for us. Is this something you do at your agency? And we were just, yeah, of course let's jump on a call. And we signed them on the day and we worked with them, I think for six, six months or five months.

47:28 And then I remember we were in pain ourselves a lot at that point, probably like 500 pounds a month, if that, but we had, you know, we had worked a lot to have some savings. So was okay. And then I remember June or July of 2021, we were in Bali at this point. So we weren't spending a lot. And we just sat down at a cafe and we just looked at each other and we said, we don't have enough money to pay our salaries this month. And it was.

47:58 a mere like 500 pounds a person. And then in August, kind of everything changed because I stayed in touch with my former boss and he was very connected in the travel industry. So he had recommended me to someone, we worked with them, that someone recommended me to someone else. And that August, 2021, we landed a really big contract with someone from Switzerland. And that's when it kind of things kind of took a turn.

48:26 for the better in our agency. Because I think it also gave us like the confidence that, okay, we can really go for it. And what was the contract for in terms of like, what was the project? So we were just, we were focusing mostly on, well, at that time, all things digital, but I want to say more like social media stuff. So it was just content, organic content, ads, stuff like that. So that was what the contract was for.

48:53 It was in the travel industry, so we were doing a lot of content curation. was managing the channels. They had like quite a few channels and doing their ads. And then that contract eventually grew with some newsletters. now we've been working with them ever since. They're some of our best clients. But yeah, it's always been from the start, it's always been heavily social media based.

49:22 But we were in B2B at the start. were just doing any, any industry. And, uh, roughly how much was that first contract for just ballpark? I think initially we signed for, I want to say 2,700 pounds. Uh, per month. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but it kind of like, we built up on it, you know, adding more services. We always do like extra projects with them and, um,

49:52 Yeah, they've been a really good client. So how did you make the transition into B2B or not how, like why? I think it was we had we signed the B2B client at some point. It was a SaaS business and we started doing some really cool stuff for them. Things that weren't necessarily traditional in B2B, you know, more like

50:21 I had a huge B2C experience behind me and Jordan's experience was primarily B2B. So I think when we brought together our skills from like both B2B and B2C and we started brainstorming for this specific client, we were just like, oh, we should give this a go. And that's when we kind of got into, it's something we talk about a lot on LinkedIn, UGC for UGC videos for B2B companies.

50:49 And with this particular client, this SaaS, B2B SaaS business, we really managed to turn things around for them. And that's where we went, it kind of like, we had this aha moment that we should actually take all of our experience from B2C and apply some of those learnings in B2B and focus on B2B only, because we just felt that it was time to kind of like change how marketing is done.

51:17 for B2B and I'm seeing a lot of agencies now, they start to talk about it and you know, there's been a lot of research and insights into how B2B buying behavior is changing and that was kind of what powered us to fully go into B2B only. Yeah, it's interesting because I've done B2C and B2B but B2B, the challenge of selling or marketing to businesses

51:47 using but but but with using B2C tactics, I find that way more enjoyable than like B2C is great, but it's like, oh, here's 20 % discount because it's Christmas. Oh, it's Valentine's campaign. It's summer campaign. It's almost just too. I don't want to say tacky, but B2C is quite tacky in that you're you use the same most of the time, the same tactics over and over and over again. There's a lot more strategy involved with B2B, which I think is what makes it more of a challenge and more enjoyable.

52:17 Right. I mean, this is a big question, but you've been doing it five-ish years based on what you've said. So let's just pick some of the key learnings in that five years, whether that be business or whether that be skills-based, delivery-based, like what some of the key bits for you? I wouldn't even know where to start. I feel like we have learned so much in the past five years. it's, you know, it's

52:45 First of all, when it comes to marketing, because we've become pro at paid advertising, right? And that's something that we really do specialize in, paid media, like paid social, Facebook ads, TikTok ads specifically.

53:02 wanting to do it so well for our clients, kind of pushed us to do more and more more research every time. And I would say that this was one of the most, it's not a learning or a skill. It's just like something that we discovered that works for us in our agency. We never stopped researching for our clients. never like, some people just sign a client and

53:31 they'll implement a strategy and repeat it over and over again. Whereas we kind of like, like to stay on top of like trends and how things are changing. And that's what also powered our switch to B2B. And then, I don't even know. I think just always, we've always had to be open to anything. That was the biggest thing. Be open to try anything, be open to change and be open to speak to anyone because you never know where like...

54:00 know where you could get your next opportunity from. have been, this might be easier to answer, what have been some of your favourite campaigns or things you've worked on in those five years? I actually do have a favourite one. We did a very daring campaign last year with this particular B2B client that we were talking about. It's just because their audience is a bit more light-hearted, you know, it's not like the typical serious B2B audience.

54:30 Um, they're basically, uh, they're a SaaS product, right? They automate some processes and the founder came to us with this idea last, last year, and they're like, this is going to sound crazy, but I think we should try it. And he was like, he had this idea of putting it into a creative, like say no to hand jobs, automate it with their product. And that.

55:00 blew up on Twitter, it got so much traction. And I think to this day, was, we had so much fun working on that campaign because we were just laughing with the founder nonstop. And it was also getting so much traction. was definitely my favorite campaign out of all the campaigns we've done for sure. Yeah. I love campaigns. Like I've been lucky enough to do some pretty out the box things and they're always the most like

55:29 It's those big, I think you could like calling big bets like you, as long as you make one big bet a year or one big bet, a quarter, whatever it is that you can manage to get away with. It's like, I know the BAU stuff and all the standard, you know, blogs and ads and stuff. But if you can do one of those like big bets outside of the box, random things, I think it's really, really good because you can learn a lot from the weather. That's negative learnings or positive learnings in the like.

55:57 God, I absolutely wouldn't do that again. Or interesting that worked really, really well. So no, that does. Yeah, that there that does sound interesting. I and it is the sort of like, in the B2B, like you're scrolling LinkedIn, that is the sort of header that's going to make you go. Yeah, I see what they've I see what they've done there. I'm gonna I'm gonna click on it, even if I don't think I need the solution, I'm gonna, I'm gonna click on it. Interesting. So I don't I don't need to ask you why you left.

56:25 and why you chose your next role because you're still there, which is great. So we will. Yeah, we will move on to the sort of quick fire round up questions. So what would be your top three tips for anyone watching or listening to progress in their career?

56:45 Like I said earlier for that really tough question is always be open. Always be open to any opportunities that come your way because you never know where you're going to end up. I've embraced pretty much anything that's come my way and I think I'm doing pretty well now. I'd say know your skills very well, like be very certain of what you're good at because that's going to help you in the long run. I knew exactly what I was good at and that's why I never kind of like...

57:15 settled for less and that was actually my last point is don't never settle for for less because if you you know exactly what you're good at and what you can do, I don't think you'll ever going to be able to accept, you know, just being stuck in a in a role that where you get bored at or where you don't really learn much. Would you say the the not settling for less? Would you say that that's something that is built with?

57:45 time and experience because I think, like you said, when you first started the agency, you were doing anything and everything and probably doing it for a lot less than you are now. So over time, you've built the confidence you've built. You've got the successful results stacked, which builds confidence. So would you say that the don't settle for less is something that should compound over time? don't you know, when you're 21 fresh out of uni, don't go in going, I'm 50k, I'm 50k. Yeah, because you haven't got the experience.

58:13 But after 10 years, know that you shouldn't take less than your worth. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you need to be that. And that's why I'm saying like, you need to be very aware of your skill set and your capabilities, because I right now I wouldn't be even now, you know, with all my experience in the agency, I wouldn't be able to just go into a company. And I don't know if I can't go in for a sales role and be like, you know, pay me 500 grand.

58:41 I don't have sales experience. Stuff like this. don't know. You just need to be very self-aware of what you're good at. And then based on that, you'll be able to know if you can do better or, you know. Yeah. And actually, so I would maybe there's a second part to that. It's know what you're good at. Also know what you're not good at. So if you're really good at something and really bad at something else, yeah. So you avoid the bad bits or you get someone else to fill those gaps.

59:10 So you can double down on the bits. Yeah. And that I think that that aligns nicely with the self-awareness because being self-aware is is both, you know, the good and the negative things. Do you have any regrets or things you wish you had done differently? No, I don't think so. I don't I don't regret anything because I think if if I was to change anything from my career path, maybe I wouldn't be where I am today.

59:37 You know, I think everything that I've done has led me to this point. And I think this is valid not just for careers, but pretty much anything in life. That's a yeah, I I'm not a particularly spiritual person. I definitely believe that everything does happen for a reason. Like even though, like we said at the start, even the stuff that like in that moment you you cannot comprehend or explain and you're like, why is this happening to me?

01:00:04 in five or 10 years when you do a podcast to talk about your career in hindsight, you're actually like, oh, that actually did pan out quite well. And that skill that I thought I would never use, actually I do use on a daily basis. Yeah, I agree. I also I'm a big believer that everything happens for a Now we you've been in the agency, you've had the agency for five years. So what's the next step?

01:00:32 the agency? What's the, I guess, what's your one, three, five year goal, whichever one of those you want to pick? We just want to continue scaling our agency and take on like cool clients like we've had until now. We have big plans for this year. We are currently working on launching a podcast ourselves. So that would be B2B marketing focused. Yeah, just, just primary. Our primary goal is to scale the agency, but we kind of

01:01:01 we're trying to not compromise on the quality of the work that we're doing because you know, it's it's very easy to, usually with agencies that scale really fast and they go really big, a lot of the times the quality of their work tends to go down. There's a lot of oversight, et cetera. And we really value our client relationships. Everyone that's been, that is with us today, they've been our clients for at least three years. So they,

01:01:29 They're really like strong partnerships and they're partnerships that I don't want to neglect even when we're growing. So our plan is not to like scale incredibly fast within the year, but just, you know, take it easy and try to take on clients that we actually like and that we could see ourselves working with long-term.

01:01:54 And then what's the, uh, what's the mountain top? What's the end goal? the, do you have an end point? If I could retire early, that'd be great. What's early for you? Like, cause retirement now, let's be honest when I'm assuming you're roughly the same age as me based on the timeline that you've discussed, but

01:02:18 Retirement for us realistically is going to be 70 by the time we're by the time we get there. So what's early for you? Is that in your 40s, 50s or is it just as early as you possibly can? I mean, if I could retire before 50, that would be fantastic. But it's just, yeah, it's a matter of I don't know if I'll ever be able to retire in the true sense of the word. But I think what I actually mean by that is just

01:02:48 take a step back from responsibilities, like still maybe like run the agency, but try to take a step back and let other people do most of the work. Where I'm just like overseeing operations or, you know, maintaining client relationships. I don't think I'll, I know myself, I don't think I'll ever be able to just not do any work at all. I love working. Yeah, I was just thinking the exact, thing that was going through my head there of like,

01:03:17 Even if I have always said this, even if I won 100 million on the lottery, I'd have to set up a business and work like I couldn't sit on a yacht. Like I'd love to don't get me wrong, three months of the year. Yeah, I'll sit on a yacht. But even when I'm on the yacht, I'd have to be tapping away on a keyboard doing something. I'd be so bored. It's more of a more a matter of, you you take a step back from your day job and you do something that brings you more joy. Like, I don't know.

01:03:45 You still have the ages you run in, but you open up a beach bar and you sit on the beach all day and that's your day job. Something like that. Well, it's been good to chat through. Like I said, a more marketing focused career journey and learn a little bit about how you've got the agency started. Cause that's something I'm very, very interested in. And when you do, when you do start the podcast, we've got some very, very good B2B marketers here that would be more than happy to.

01:04:13 jump on the podcast, depending on what what it's going to be about. So we'll have to have a chat about that. But thank you for jumping on this podcast or this series. Hopefully for those watching or listening, it's been enlightening or you've taken something away from it. So thank you for taking the time and we hope to see those watching or listening in the next episode. Thank you for having me.