Mama told me when I was young that I need to choose my influences wisely. Did you see what I did there or not? a clue what you're doing, mate. It's very poorly. Well, you could say I'm a simple man. Listen, we're going to go in to a little bit of say Nicker right now. OK, we said one line. So you have to just stick with me on this one, guys. Give us. We don't choose our parents, but we can choose the kind of person.

want to become. Nice. That's lovely. could put it in a card somewhere, think that one. Maybe not to your mum though or any of family. I say it. I wouldn't be mum as yet, but luckily I've chosen the person I wanted to become, so thanks for that. Right, so I've got somewhere I want to take this out. I think good to have a little debate, a little round robin around this one. So obviously we're at a time where attention's the new oil, isn't it? You like that? I do. Yeah.

Virality is like a thing that people are constantly chasing. Some of us, it's probably more important to than others. Azure algorithm. My algorithm. And I think there's a lot of like how to get people's attention as seems to be this opener works 100 % of the time. Only do voice notes, only do like very like just get you in like very cold email is dead. Yeah. Or cold call it all like whatever. It's all very extreme. And then because of that we're

kind of teaching new salespeople coming up that it's this way or the highway and then, oh no, it's this way or the highway, then they suddenly get confused. So if you were a new salesperson starting out today, knowing what you know, what advice would you be giving them coming into today's tech market? So they were doing something similar to what you've done. What advice would you be giving them? I was just thinking as you spoke that it would actually be so overwhelming to be a new salesperson now. do genuinely think that you almost need to like,

narrow down what, what you listen, like what content you take in. there's so much and it's also conflicting as well. Like tick tock, you spend 20 minutes on tick tock and it will tell you that. Like you said, those quick, you'll scroll and it's like how to make sure you get a hundred percent open rates on emails. And you're like, but then that's completely different. Well, they'll say like question, Sophie question mark. And then you go on LinkedIn and someone say, never use a name and never use a question mark in a subject line. You're like, Right. So which one's right? Yeah. It's overwhelming. I think the best, the best learning that you can ever do and not even just new salespeople, but anyone trying to understand a new industry or company is listen to like live calls. So like if you've got a cool recording software, whatever, like spend some time just listening to actual conversations between prospects and salespeople, like what objections they get, what.

talk track do they use? how do they position whatever you sell? Um, yeah, that'd be my first port of advice. I think is try and just listen to actual calls. You're a girl. Thanks mate. was listening. I was ready to go anyway. Don't worry. Clicky. I like the idea that both things can be true and both things can exist in harmony. And, and I think it's about finding out what works for you and

They're probably, I don't think enough salespeople A, B test. our sales team, when we launch a new client, obviously we call for a variety of different clients. I will typically like write three or four scripts. And I'll just say, because these are different options that you could take. These are different ways that you could take it. And people say, well, what one should I use? It's like, well, have a look at all of them. Which one, you've been doing this for long enough. What does your gut intuition say? And actually if you start with that one,

And people say, I don't really recognize any of those problems. do one in the morning, one in the afternoon and switch it up and then find what works and maybe take that bit from that bit and that bit from that bit. And then all of a sudden, I think there's so many salespeople choose a hill to die on when it comes to like a methodology. I am medic, I am Sandler, I am gap selling, I am this or that or whatever. It's like, actually, there can be all methodologies can

can coexist in one way and another. So you've got to find what works for you because not everybody is the same and we all learn and respond to different things. Just on that point, on the testing, one thing that we've done as a sales team is like pick a challenge and pick a set of like a sector or whatever to sell to. So like choose an ICP, an ideal customer that you want to. hone in on and try to sell to and then we'll do like a week of cold calls or week of outreach just to that specific persona and all do the same thing and then come back together after a week or two weeks and say, okay, what worked and what didn't? And then we'll like refine it again. And the good thing about that is you're testing yourself, but you're also widening your testing like set of people. Cause then there's like eight of you doing the same thing and everyone's getting results. So it's not just you, it's like a full team of everyone doing it at same time.

That's been really good. We've done that like for the last few months and it's worked really well. You'll probably feel more motivated to own it as well. So if I know that that's going off and trying something and I'm doing it, then I've got that accountability, right? We're all going back and then I'm excited to go back with my idea and we'll talk and then you'll learn. And actually you might fight for your idea a little bit more and vice versa. And then the best ideas will stand at the back. So what do you think about that,

Watch Bit, mate. All of it. All of the stuff that, all of that good stuff we've just been saying. You were looking sleepy over there. I wasn't at all. I wasn't at all. I like that a lot. I like that a lot. What were we talking about then? No, I think there's, the thing that probably bothers me a lot is it's very easy to go, here's my, here's my opener and put it on TikTok. And then people are like, it's about the opener and you can lose track of it. It's about the whole thing. Yeah. But you're going to to the entire craft.

but it's just not sexy to go, here's how to do a discovery call. You couldn't chop up a discovery call into like a 60 second clip or the nuance of like, you saw that multi-threading in one of the other episodes. It's not sexy to go like, and then I spoke to this person, here's what their drivers and here was this person. And I think the way we line up expectations with reality, what we're probably gonna end up with is the next generation of salespeople coming in and are gonna come in thinking, I'm a high ticket closer, I'm Andy Elliott, I'm whatever. And the reality is gonna be, oh, I didn't actually know you have to graph.

But we've interviewed loads of people, haven't we, the mindset seemed good. They seem like they had all the things. Then we get into it. They're like, jumped to kind of a new idea every two weeks because I'm on TikTok all the time. That's my next million pound idea. So I think that idea of like how we can prepare people for, it's going to be graphed, but you'll get progressively better at a skill for life. Because sales is communication, isn't it? At the end of the day. think one thing that people don't talk about as well is like, A lot of the LinkedIn content is from people who work for a really good product that's really well known and like course you're going to have a good success rate because you a really popular product. So like, think I would personally love to follow people who work like either for themselves or sell some really niche to a really like niche group of people and how successful are they? Like if you're selling Gong, I'm sorry, but like everyone knows what Gong is. course you're going to be successful.

Yeah. it that Bob P stuff? they're little balls that pop in your mouth. Gong. So yeah, if you sell like a really popular product, I think the salespeople that talk about how successful they are don't really say how they are essentially relying on the fact that they're whatever they sell is popular and they don't talk about that. And if it's all, I'm a great salesperson. I'm not, not questioning that you are.

but you also sell something that everyone knows. So like, of course, when you call someone, they can know who you are and like already be a bit soft because they already have heard of you. Do you know what I mean? That's a bit of that self-awareness, isn't it? know what's actually, what have I actually done here compared to what haven't I done? Yeah. So like that thing of asking, what would they have bought without you?

Because oftentimes, like I bet with Gong or whatever, like I'm already using one of your competitors, right? So yeah, I was kind of in the market or I read some sort of thing and that's why you found been marketed to death. I'm ready to buy. You can build a monster, can't you? The sales team is like thinking, well, yeah, I'm closing everyone. And then, right, we'll go and work for a start. Exactly. can do it again. Exactly. Yeah, that's my... When you were both talking there, you got me thinking about an idea. my God, you And if it was a newsletter, the title would be, A Pick Up Line Never Got You Married. Right, go on.

So obviously the idea of like this, this Tik Tok cold call opener, it's like, it's like, that's enough to get you into the conversation. Yeah. The same with the pickup line. So you go up and say, huh, do you come here often or, your legs tired? Cause you've been running from all of those things. And they might go, ha ha ha. And then you're in, but it didn't, it doesn't get you married. Actually, you've got to do a lot more than that to get married. Name top three things you've got to do to get married. You've got to wash the dishes. Yeah. Yeah, you've got to mow your lawn. you've got to... You've You've got to... I've been Jack Frimston. I've been Zack Thompson. I've been Zoe Fellis. Remember you will die? Yes, we won't. No, we will. Bye.